Most underrated player in the NBA

Since you've gotten into the discussion about the NBA in the Gasol trade thread, I decided to draw you in here too stl.

Who is the most underrated player in the NBA and name a runner-up. Fire away with all your reasons and I'll come back with my answer afterwards (I'm sure you can take an educated guess about who I'll go for). Hope for it to be like a debate league type thing, but without a winner and going more than 2 responses.

Hedo Turkoglu the man is clutch, he has hit 7 game winning shots before the all star break, not only that he came from nowhere and is shining in a city that isn't famous for basketball and is surrounded by players like Dwight Howard and Rashad Lewis. For anyone to stand out in that lineup is simply amazing.

Baron Davis, I had a chance to see this guy when I was in New Orleans and the man is a damn good ball player. I mean he made Golden State famous. He is like a mix between Jason Kidd and Tracy McGrady, and he didn't make the all star game which is a shock. This guy is crazy good and has a stroke like no other.

Bah, you took my Baron Davis, damn you! I could probably go on and write like a 2000 word essay on his greatness in just the past 5 years, but it seems to pointless to do all that and you just agree.

So I will take a look at Hedo Turkoglu.

Quote :

Hedo Turkoglu the man is clutch, he has hit 7 game winning shots before the all star break, not only that he came from nowhere and is shining in a city that isn't famous for basketball and is surrounded by players like Dwight Howard and Rashad Lewis. For anyone to stand out in that lineup is simply amazing.

He may be in the running for most improved player, but he is certainly not the most underrated player. Prior to this season, he had already established himself as a solid NBA player averaging around 13 PPG. And this year he breaks out for more points, but his shooting percentages (outside of ft%) is nothing to be proud of. This is also a guy who attracts fouls fairly easy and isn't really solid defensively.

My choice for second most underrated player (after B-Diddy) is Jose Calderon of the Toronto Raptors. The guy was snubbed of an all-star appearance, but why should he have. He, much like Hedo, has hit his fair share of clutch shots. But let's just look at his numbers. He is the only player in the league to get percentages of 520/440/910. Not only that, but this guy was a reserve player to start the season and has since averaged 9.9 APG as a starter (possibly more now). And he is leading the league and is among the top 5 ALL TIME in assist to turnover ratio of over 5 assists per turnover. To put this into perspective, Steve Nash's assists to turnover ratio is barely over 3.

Allow me to put things into perspective for you. I will compare him to the starting Eastern Conference point guard, Jason Kidd (keeping in mind Calderon started coming off the bench only).

PPG:
Calderon - 12.4
Kidd - 11.3
Winner: Calderon

RPG:
Calderon - 3.2
Kidd - 8.1
Winner: Kidd

APG:
Calderon - 8.7 (like I mentioned, it is around 10 as a starter)
Kidd - 10.4
Winner: Kidd (barely)

MPG:
Calderon - 31.7
Kidd - 37.3
Winner: Calderon (I mean this guy produces in less minutes)

FG%
Calderon - 525
Kidd - 368
Winner: Calderon

3P%
Calderon - 444
Kidd - 343
Winner: Calderon

FT%
Calderon - 916
Kidd - 808
Winner: Calderon

SPG
Calderon - 1.1
Kidd - 1.6
Winner: Kidd

BPG
Calderon - 0.1
Kidd - 0.3
Winner: Kidd (barely...I mean who cares about PG blocks)

FPG (fouls per game)
Calderon - 1.6
Kidd - 1.8
Winner: Calderon

My final verdict, Calderon takes it 6-4 (even including the blocks category). And yet this guy is not even a reserve in the all-star game.

babaganoosh wrote:

Bah, you took my Baron Davis, damn you! I could probably go on and write like a 2000 word essay on his greatness in just the past 5 years, but it seems to pointless to do all that and you just agree.

So I will take a look at Hedo Turkoglu.

Quote :

Hedo Turkoglu the man is clutch, he has hit 7 game winning shots before the all star break, not only that he came from nowhere and is shining in a city that isn't famous for basketball and is surrounded by players like Dwight Howard and Rashad Lewis. For anyone to stand out in that lineup is simply amazing.

He may be in the running for most improved player, but he is certainly not the most underrated player. Prior to this season, he had already established himself as a solid NBA player averaging around 13 PPG. And this year he breaks out for more points, but his shooting percentages (outside of ft%) is nothing to be proud of. This is also a guy who attracts fouls fairly easy and isn't really solid defensively.

My choice for second most underrated player (after B-Diddy) is Jose Calderon of the Toronto Raptors. The guy was snubbed of an all-star appearance, but why should he have. He, much like Hedo, has hit his fair share of clutch shots. But let's just look at his numbers. He is the only player in the league to get percentages of 520/440/910. Not only that, but this guy was a reserve player to start the season and has since averaged 9.9 APG as a starter (possibly more now). And he is leading the league and is among the top 5 ALL TIME in assist to turnover ratio of over 5 assists per turnover. To put this into perspective, Steve Nash's assists to turnover ratio is barely over 3.

Allow me to put things into perspective for you. I will compare him to the starting Eastern Conference point guard, Jason Kidd (keeping in mind Calderon started coming off the bench only).

PPG:
Calderon - 12.4
Kidd - 11.3
Winner: Calderon

RPG:
Calderon - 3.2
Kidd - 8.1
Winner: Kidd

APG:
Calderon - 8.7 (like I mentioned, it is around 10 as a starter)
Kidd - 10.4
Winner: Kidd (barely)

MPG:
Calderon - 31.7
Kidd - 37.3
Winner: Calderon (I mean this guy produces in less minutes)

FG%
Calderon - 525
Kidd - 368
Winner: Calderon

3P%
Calderon - 444
Kidd - 343
Winner: Calderon

FT%
Calderon - 916
Kidd - 808
Winner: Calderon

SPG
Calderon - 1.1
Kidd - 1.6
Winner: Kidd

BPG
Calderon - 0.1
Kidd - 0.3
Winner: Kidd (barely...I mean who cares about PG blocks)

FPG (fouls per game)
Calderon - 1.6
Kidd - 1.8
Winner: Calderon

My final verdict, Calderon takes it 6-4 (even including the blocks category). And yet this guy is not even a reserve in the all-star game.

Yeah Calderon isn't underrated at all, he plays on a team whose only star is Chris Bosh. How the hell can you be underrated if you have nobody on your team to compare too? Kidd on the other hand has more in his favor, he does all that despite having Vince Carter and Richard Jefferson. You can't compare Calderon to Kidd, because Calderon isn't an all star, he isn't a big time player, he isn't even the star of his team. Besides those stats prove nothing because the All Stars are fan voted and the reserves are picked by the coaches of the teams, Toronto is in the same division as Boston, I think Doc Rivers would know if he deserves an all star spot or not.

Well when you are a point guard and you only have 1 star, you are that much better because they are a winning team with less star power. So attribute that to the point guard getting other players open shots.

I can compare Calderon to Kidd because he is putting up better numbers and still not getting the nod. Yes it's fan voted, which is exactly why he is underrated. He puts up better numbers and is still not getting the fans attention. That's like the definition of underrated.

And teams can have 2 all-stars, that doesn't take away from either player's greatness. He doesn't have to be the star of his team to be underrated.

No but if someone is double teaming Chris Bosh, and that other white dude they got in the draft last year then that leaves open shots for a point guard whom nobody gives a fuck about. Take away Bosh and see where he goes from there.

Well the Raptors have a deep team consisting of Bargnani (the white guy ), Delfino has been solid, Kapono, Anthony Parker, Jamario Moon. These guys can all step-up and Calderon's ball movement is helping all these guys excel.

When Bosh was out this year, Calderon averaged over 8 APG and over 10 PPG. And he wasn't a starter for all those games either. He has been a constant performer regardless of who he is surrounded with.

10 points per game and 8 assists? Those stats are nowhere near all star quality and you know it. Underrated, I think not. Overrated I think so.

Compared to Kidd's points and assists as a STARTER playing WITH Carter and Jefferson, he still stacks up. Underrated, I think so. Overrated, how can he be? Nobody else seems to have given a shit thus far to an almost double double guy.

Because you pat him on the back so much you're about to break your arm. Here is the thing he isn't a double double guy, he isn't even a starter, as far as I'm concerned he is the Raja of the East.

He isn't a starter, yet he still averages more assists than most point guards in the league. That should tell you something about his play. I wish he was the Raja of the East, then he can clothesline Kobe's head off next time we see him.

More assists then anyone in the league huh?


PLAYER NAME, TEAM NAME GP MPG AST APG TO TOPG AP48M AST/TO
1
Chris Paul , NOH
1 19 19.0 5 5.0 3.8
2
Jason Kidd , NJN
1 12 12.0 4 4.0 3.0
2
Deron Williams , UTA
1 12 12.0 4 4.0 3.0
4
Andre Miller , PHI
1 11 11.0 6 6.0 1.83
4
Brandon Roy , POR
1 11 11.0 2 2.0 5.5
6
Tracy McGrady , HOU
1 9 9.0 2 2.0 4.5
7
Marko Jaric , MIN
1 8 8.0 1 1.0 8.0
7
Lamar Odom , LAL
1 8 8.0 2 2.0 4.0
7
Jamaal Tinsley , IND
1 8 8.0 5 5.0 1.6
10
Mike Bibby , SAC
1 7 7.0 1 1.0 7.0
10
Vince Carter , NJN
1 7 7.0 0 .0 .0
10
Stephen Jackson , GSW
1 7 7.0 0 .0 .0
13
Baron Davis , GSW
1 6 6.0 2 2.0 3.0
13
Juan Dixon , TOR
1 6 6.0 1 1.0 6.0
13
Andre Iguodala , PHI
1 6 6.0 1 1.0 6.0
13
Nate Robinson , NYK
1 6 6.0 5 5.0 1.2
13
Hedo Turkoglu , ORL
1 6 6.0 1 1.0 6.0
13
Dwyane Wade , MIA
1 6 6.0 6 6.0 1.0
19
Carlos Arroyo , ORL
1 5 5.0 1 1.0 5.0
19
Carlos Boozer , UTA
1 5 5.0 2 2.0 2.5
19
Kobe Bryant , LAL
1 5 5.0 1 1.0 5.0
19
Jose Calderon , TOR
1 5 5.0 1 1.0 5.0

Read it and weep bitch.

Um, firstly, I can't see what stats go with what. And I would assume Calderon's APG isn't on there because it is well over 8 and there isn't a single 8 in his line.

lol well we aren't all perfect but its on NBA.com...

Here's the real stats for you

He is ranked #5 in APG

I would say that's pretty high up there for a reserve guard.

bullshit cause on NBA.com he was 19th

Check his profile and you can see his rank in the NBA as opposed to your weird and crappy ranking that you posted that was already wrong because of his 8+ APG that didn't even show.

Alright I admit I was wrong, I clicked on the daily assists link and not the season assist link. My bad.

But now I wanna turn to one of my favorite player who I believe is probally one of the most underrated players of an era and that is Reggie Miller. This man had to play against players like Ewing, Shaq, Jordan, Bryant, Bird, Pippen, Duncan, Hardaway, and many others. He was the 11th pick in the 1987 Draft and was taken over Indiana's favorite child Steve Alford (who is a nice man) and had to live up to some standards. He was born with a leg deformity that made one of his legs shorter then the other one. Despite that Miller scored 25,279 points, with an average of 18.2 points per game. He shot .471 from the field, .395 from 3-point range and .888 from the free throw line. Miller was the first Indiana Pacer to start in an NBA All-Star Game, first doing so in 1995. He was also selected to the team in 1990, 1996, 1998 and 2000. During the 98 player introductions, the PA announcer mistakes Miller as a two-time Olympic gold-medalist. Miller is the NBA's career leader in four-point plays with 24. Not to mention he is the only Indiana Pacer with his number retired. I truely believe this amazing star was outshadowed by the other great ones of his time.

Firstly, whoot for Calderon

And on to Reggie, I think he's about status quo. I think many people view him very highly, as they should. This guy is clutch, one of the best from 3 pt land, and just a great creator. Not afraid to take shots, this guy is a monster when he gets hot. I think during the time that he played with all those guys he may have been overlooked, but when people look back at his career, people will still see his greatness and he will definitely get his recognition.